Pillars of Excellence: Dr. Harry L. Williams on the Power of Education and HBCUs

A single day in a tobacco field changed the life of Dr. Harry L. Williams, President & CEO of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. Join us as we sit down with Dr. Williams as he shares the story of growing up in eastern North Carolina, learning what hard labor really costs, and making a decision that became the foundation of everything that followed: excellence in school, invest in himself, and build a future powered by education.

This important conversation unpacks why Historically Black Colleges and Universities (HBCUs) remain essential to American higher education and the Black middle class. We talk about TMCF’s role representing 57 public HBCUs, why “education pays off” is more than a slogan, and how to think clearly about return on investment when tuition rises and people debate whether college is still worth it. We also explore what makes HBCUs different: the culture, the community, and the feeling that you can “find your voice” in a place where you are valued.

Then we look forward. From student mental health and the impact of scaling back diversity, equity, and inclusion to the race for AI workforce readiness, Dr. Williams explains why under-resourced campuses cannot be left behind. We dig into corporate talent pipelines, the myth that opportunity equals charity, and the growing focus on Historically Black Community Colleges (HBCCs) through place-based training that connects students to real local jobs.

If you care about scholarships, career pathways, HBCUs, and the future of education, this is a conversation you cannot miss. 

Transcript

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Welcome And Guest Introduction

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 0:12

Welcome to Coding Conversations, created and produced by the STEM Educational Institute. I'm Dr. Nikisha Al cindor, president and founder of the STEM Educational Institute. Here at the STEM Educational Institute, we focus on giving high school students access to free programming in STEM, financial literacy, and mental health. After the one-year program, our students get a college scholarship. Coding Conversations, this podcast, is our way of giving you, the people, access to individuals who are really doing amazing things in the community that falls across one of our three pillars of STEM, financial literacy, and mental health. And today is no different. On today's episode, we're going to talk about historically black colleges and universities, HBCUs. And with that, we have Dr. Harry Williams, who's here with us today. Dr. Williams is the president CEO of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund, TMCF. Very important person. If you don't know who that is, go look up Third Good Marshall now. Dr. William oversees 57 member schools comprising of America's publicly supported historically black colleges and universities, HBCUs. Now, Dr. Williams has been recognized with numerous accolades for his contributions to higher education. He has an illustrious career, including senior positions at the University of North Carolina General Administration, Appalachian State University, and North Carolina ANT State University. Okay? But not only that, Dr. Williams earned his bachelor's and master's degrees from Appalachian State University and a doctorate from East Tennessee State University. And he was named President Emeritus of Delaware State University. He's also a proud member of Alpha Phi Alpha Fraternity, and he has a beautiful wife and family. Have to shout that out, of course. He's married to Dr. Robin S. Williams.

The Tobacco Field Turning Point

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 2:06

Welcome, Dr. Williams.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 2:08

Thank you, Dr. Alcindor.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 2:10

Yay! Yay! Yes, doctors in the house. So we have to start from the beginning. There's a word that you used today when you were speaking to the kids. So I want to hear about your background, where you were raised, but you have to include tobacco. Okay. Now I'm Jamaican, you know, I don't know about the whole southern thing, but we need to include that. So welcome, Dr. Williams.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 2:35

Well, thank you, Nikisha. I'm I am delighted to be here uh in your home.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 2:39

Yes.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 2:40

Uh and to be here at this at this time. And your students, by the way, are just amazing. So I gave the young people a little history lesson of where I was from, and I'm in New York City, and I know I might have a little southern twang coming out of my mouth here, but uh shared with them that I was from North Carolina, and I grew up in the eastern part of North Carolina, and I what changed my life was when I had my first experience in working in tobacco. And tobacco is they call it uh tobacco is king uh in the eastern part of uh North Carolina's call, it's a cash crop, uh meaning that they they uh they do a lot of work uh to get cigarettes for people. And uh and when I was growing up, you know, it was it was very common for all of us to be working in tobacco and to be working in the fields. I shared with the the students uh my journey, which changed my life as it relates to whether or not I was gonna spend 30 years in the field of tobacco or 30 years in behind books trying to learn something. So I I I asked them if they ever heard the term sucking tobacco. And they they looked puzzled. They didn't know what it was. And I shared with them is that when you suck tobacco, those who are from the South and primarily North Carolina, South Carolina, Alabama, uh, you know what I'm talking about when I say suck tobacco. You gotta go in and literally break the top of the tobacco uh stack is a is a is a sorry a flower that's on top of it. And that flower is literally sucking and killing the tobacco. So you have to break it and kill it, take it off. So you go down, you literally, they got they got technology now where they have uh where you can actually have a machine to go and do it. But almost 30, 40, 40 some odd years ago, even 50 years ago, uh, human beings had to do that. They had to walk down those aisle, and I shared, gave them kind of a sense. I said, we're on 125th Street, and I said you go down 20 blocks, that's literally, you know, several acres potentially, where you're out there all day walking down and taking the top of the tobacco off and sucking and killing so it won't kill tobacco top. And I said, I did that one day. And I said, I said, there's a reason why I'm gonna go to school every day. There's a reason why I'm gonna stay in school and get my education because I don't want to be doing this the rest of my life. And that changed my life there. And it's a uh uh and I shared that with the students, so that's my tobacco story.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 5:07

Well, I gotta tell you, just the the way you say it sounds rough. I mean, tobacco,

What TMCF Does For HBCUs

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 5:13

right? It just sounds like it's just painful, right? And I think you proved that. So I love that, and I love the fact that you have such an illustrious educational pathway. Can you talk about like how you how and why you you transitioned to the Thurgood Marshall College Fund and tell us more about TMCF?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 5:36

Yeah, first of all, yeah, my whole entire life has been committed to education. You know, we have a motto at the Thurgood Marshall College Fund. When you walk in our office, we're based in Washington, D.C., uh, and you walk in our office, we got a sign that says education pays off. And what that means is that when you invest in yourself, you invest in education, it's going to be a payoff. And the Thurgood Marshall College Fund is an organization, as you stated in your opening, that represents the college black community. We are the largest organization in the world, exclusively focused on the public historically black colleges and universities. There are over 100 HBCUs in the cut in this country. Uh we represent 80% of those, which is 57 of those member institutions are public TMCF schools. And those institutions like Howard University, North Carolina AT, as you mentioned, I think you said you got a family member at FAMU, Florida AM. Yeah, that those are big public uh HBCUs. I was president at Delaware State University, which is a public HBCU about a fact. In New York City, there's they have a STEM program at one of the high schools here where students get their, they can get up to 60 hours of credit and then they transfer to Delaware State and they earn a uh a degree in two years. So um so anyway, so part of that journey uh and recognize that education changes lives. Education can make you have a better life. So I've dedicated my my whole entire career space specifically in the HBCU world, mainly because HBCUs have been changing the world since the beginning. They've been here over 180 years, with the oldest HBCU being in Cheney University in Pennsylvania. Over 180 years of just impacting and creating the black middle class. Without HBCUs, we wouldn't have the black middle class as we know it today. Uh there's someone you may not have gone to an HBCU, but there's somebody in your family that you know, you go down your family tree. I don't care, go down your family tree, somebody in your family they went to an HBCU. So that's how embedded

Is College Still Worth It

Dr. Harry L. Williams 7:40

those institutions are in our in our community.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 7:43

I love that. And it's interesting because one of the things that that you talked about is that education is going to pay off. Yeah. Right? That view is being challenged. If you I'm sure most of the audience has heard about this, this kind of this discussion about whether or not college is worth it. Right, right. Right? And the educational landscape is changing. What do you where do you see the role of academic education in the future?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 8:11

Well, first of all, education is gonna be here. Second of all, colleges are gonna be here, four-year college. You know why? Because when someone turns 18 years old, you want them out of your house doing something else. Okay? So they're gonna that's gonna happen. Uh and they're gonna and education will be here. And we're going through some turbulent times right now when it comes to challenging whether or not you need a four-year degree or whether or not you need a certificate. We we need them all. We need all of it. We need you need certificates. You need people who are gonna just go in for two years and go straight to work. We need people who are gonna spend their whole entire life studying stuff so that they can change the word world and help save lives. So we're gonna we're gonna have research institutions that are gonna be here, we're gonna have teaching institutions that are gonna be here, and they and it pays off. And the fact of the matter, at the Thurgood Marshall College Fund, our whole entire commitment is creating opportunities that lift up the middle class to get more African Americans, more students from underrepresented communities to go to college. Because when you go to college, it gives you an opportunity to increase and enhance your economics. You're gonna make more money. You can do all this, you can look at all the studies. Those who have four-year degrees, those who have advanced degrees, they make more money than people that have less degrees. Now you're gonna have some outliers here and there, but the reality is it is a safe pathway to the middle class. It's a safe pathway to making sure you can get your first home uh in a timely manner. And these jobs out here, you know, you get to create jobs. That's the that's the beauty about being in college. You there are jobs that students will create that's not even existing right now, right? So, you know, I think the opportunity for us to continue to invest. Yes, college is going up. There is no question about that. Yes, the affordability factor is real. Yes, the loan factor is real. But at the end of the day, at the end of the day, you are making an investment in yourself. And that's what people look at it. It's a, you know, in the business school, you know, you're a business professor. We talk about ROI, return on investment. Yes. And I can guarantee you, in order to get a return, you gotta make some significant uh investments in yourself so you can see that. So it's a long side. Education is um, you know, we're in this um quick and fast. We want it now, but uh, but an education is a delayed gratification process. It's gonna take you time, it's a step process, and you can't skip it. I mean, I hear people talking about cutting, you know, making a three-year degree, making a two-year degree. No, no, no. It's part of the journey, it's part of your development, it's part of your educational experience. It's part of you growing up from that perspective, and it allows you to see all the possibilities.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 10:47

I love that. Just taking that integrative approach as humans, right? Everyone navigates life at a different pace. And I feel that exactly like you said, college is the way for most people to grow up, have those experiences, and to learn how to fail, learn how to have success and become a better person. With that said, when you look at the Third Group

HBCU Momentum And Resource Gaps

Speaker 11:14

Maffure College Fund and your member schools and HBCUs versus predominantly white institutions, what are the challenges that you guys are seeing and what are the opportunities that you're seeing in today's landscape?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 11:25

Well, I tell you what, the biggest uh opportunity I think is more and more people are coming to HBCUs. HBCUs are on the edit, they are at an all-time high in terms of attention, all-time high in terms of record enrollment, students wanting to come. But the biggest challenge which has faced our institutions from the very beginning is resources. Uh and they have always, let me underscore this, they've always been underfunded. They've never been fully funded. These are institutions that have uh that started out as an experiment. They, you know, at the end of slavery, they didn't know what to do with the freed slaves. And so therefore, they created these institutions in some places because they understood the value of an education and the value and importance of it. But they never fully invest the resources in those institutions. We're seeing some of that now. We're seeing some some and I go, uh I'm sure you heard of McKenzie Scott, and she's invested over a billion dollars into HBCUs. And that's uh that's a philanthropic investment.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 12:24

I know Can you tell her to call me when she can see please call me? Like, subscribe, call, email.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 12:32

Okay. She's an incredible uh uh uh philanthropist. Yes as someone who's not only invested in HBCU, she's invested in a lot of different uh organizations. You've seen it, you've seen the work there because these are organizations that are having impact. They're having impact in lives, they're making people's lives better, and looking at how do you continue to do that in a very strategic and a deliberate way. And what's so exciting about it, there was a there was a you mentioned you mentioned failures where you go to college, can you so you can fail is a safe place to fail. It's really a safe place to fail. You have one of your students who asked that question and said, How do you deal with failure? And I said, failure is part of life. Failure is part of how do we, you know, you pick up and start over again. You gotta learn how to get knocked down and get right back up. And when you get right back up, you get back up stronger and you want to fight even harder from that perspective. So that's part of that the journey piece that that uh that a college will provide you. In the HBCU world, which is a little bit different as it relates to the the the the space, right? And compared to uh historically white institutions. HBCUs, they were the reality, both of my kids went to Howard University. And when when they went on their campus tour, you know, when you go on a campus tour, yeah, you gotta you gotta feel yourself in a place. You gotta feel it, right? And when you go to a place like that, you know when the spirit is there with you. And then a student was walking around and he shared with my son. I was in the background, and he shared with him. He said, If you come here, you will find your voice. That's whoa, find your voice. I mean, and when you're 18 years old, you're 19, you don't know what your voice is.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 14:10

Yes.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 14:10

But when you could go to a place where you are appreciated, where you are valued, where you walk around and you see the names on the building, you see Thurgood Marshall name, you see Langston Hughes, you see all these famous, incredible African-American leaders that have transformed lives. Andrew Young, and kind of that gives you uh this uh uh incredible feel of pride for yourself and for your community, and you can be your authentic self in those spaces. And you know, you to you hear people talk about uh, you know, there's nothing like an HBCU homecoming, right? You hear people talk about those activities, but it is it is like a uh a big family-oriented where everybody's there invested in the success of everyone. So that's the excitement piece. Uh, in addition to the challenging pieces that is real in terms of uh there we have some of our schools that uh potentially have they're having some financial challenges as far as uh um resources that could be closing. We don't want that to happen. But the reality is that these institutions need to be invested in because they have, as I indicated in the beginning, they have been the bedrock of helping to create the black middle class as we know it today.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 15:23

Mm-hmm. And you know what what I love about that as well is this image of I always say you don't you can't know where you're going if you don't know where you came from, right? And in the black community, there, you know, some people we don't know where you came from, you know. That's why everyone's giving their DN DNA away. Don't do this, by the way, do not partake in that. It's not good. Um because you don't know where your DNA is gonna end up. Um but it's it seems like students are also having this last mile problem where a lot of students of color, and even frankly, students around the scope of different ethnic backgrounds, are having this problem is that when they get to university, when they get on college campuses, they're kind of shell shocked.

Belonging, DEI Pushback, Mental Health

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 16:09

And so what do you think what do you think can help with that? You talked a little bit about just being being in around like people that look like you. What else is that? Is it is there, is it more support or what do you what have you seen across campus?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 16:21

I think that what you and this goes to all universities is community, right? Building community, being in a place where you are wanted, being in a place where, I mean, you you hear all these these attacks on DNI, right? I'm telling you, institutions that have you know robust DNI programs and they're scaling back, you're sending a message. You send a message to those communities that you say that you're interested in, that you want to see, but you're pulling back and you're afraid to even say, we got black students here. Yeah. That now, when you go to a place like that, do you feel welcome? Versus a place where you can go and people they value for who you are, right? You walk in there and they don't look at you and make judgments based on you because of what's been said outside of the space. So I think students are, you know, that's why there's a big, there's a big um challenge uh on a lot of college campuses around mental health. Oh, yeah. I was just gonna say that's that's a real real thing because you know, when people start questioning, I tell, you know, because when you're you're very vulnerable at 18, you're vulnerable at 19. You know, you you can you can score 1600 on an SAT, you can score, you know, uh 36 on it on an ACT. Extremely bright and talented. Absolutely. You're still 20. You still need someone to tell you you can do certain things. Sure. You still need to have that confirmation, that validation from that perspective. And when you're not getting it, when you're in a place where you don't feel like people really want you there, then you start questioning. You start questioning, you know, why am I here? Why am I doing these things? And that so you want to be in the HBCUs create this environment for those students. And I'm gonna be clear, uh, there are HBCUs are starting out primarily African-American, but they're not. You know, they have never, they have never denied anyone interest based on race or or sex or gender or whatever. Uh, but they've always there have always been institutions for all for all races. Uh, we even have some HBCUs that are predominantly white. There's a couple in West Virginia, uh Bluefield State. Uh, there's a one of our member institutions, but they just historically nature because they were created in the beginning to serve uh former uh uh slaves uh and a place for them to go because they could not did not have uh uh on the books that it was illegal, believe it or not, for blacks and whites to go to school together.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 18:47

Yeah.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 18:48

Until Thurgood Marshall changed all that with Brown v. Board of Education, and because he was deliberate in saying, hey, look, uh education, you know, you don't have no colors when it comes to education. Everybody should have that right to be able to get that education and get the best education. And you know, the whole thing about Brown v. Vir board was was a design around separate but equal doctrine, saying they were separate and that they were equal. But they was never, they were separate, but they weren't equal. And the funding wasn't equal. The schools weren't there. That's where you went through all, you know, toured all these schools in the South, and they saw how the inequities that exist in some of those public schools, which puts students behind. So it's all you know, leveling the playing field. So what HBCUs have done is kind of scale up and level the play, trying to get there. And we're not fully there yet, but part of the process is those steps, those steps that we're taking right now.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 19:40

No, absolutely. And you mentioned this kind of mental health component, which

AI Readiness And Policy Advocacy

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 19:44

is so important. Students are walking a walking around feeling lonely, and so seeking and finding that community is so important. And so, but I'm I'm wondering now, okay, so we have all these HBCUs. How how well are students being prepared for this workforce, right? Especially when artificial intelligence has come into play. Can you talk a little bit about what you're seeing across your campuses and what are some things that you think HBCUs are doing to get students' workforce ready?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 20:14

Well, I you know, one of the things we don't want to be, we don't be left behind. Absolutely and we don't want to be in a situation where well resourced institutions, I'm at one right now, where they are getting ahead and those less under-resourced institutions are not. So we're working with with uh with our state officials, working with our legislators, working with our corporate partners to make sure that HBCUs are not left upon left behind when it comes to this AI world that we now live in. We cannot be coming to the table after everybody else have eaten all the food up. So we gotta be there together. And so we're working with major partners like Google. We're making with um partners who understand that, understand the importance of making sure that these institutions are also receiving whatever resources they need to stay because no one knows where AI is gonna end up. We do know it's important. We do know it's a it's a major shift that's happening in this world, and we don't want to be left behind. So part of our work uh at the Thurgood Marshall College Fund, we're also an advocacy group. So we advocate. We're based in Washington, D.C. So we go and work with members of Congress, you uh with your senators, and talk about how make sure we have legislation that's going to not only support HBCUs, but also support higher ed in general. You know, we we even got an executive order signed by the president of the United States uh saying the importance of HBCUs and that philanthropic agencies,

Talent Pipelines And Earning Your Seat

Dr. Harry L. Williams 21:37

companies, and and organizations should invest in HBCUs because they have been that economic engine, that economic push to kind of help those communities that have been disenfranchised from that perspective.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 21:49

So, and I love one of the things I believe you guys worked on as well is making sure HBCUs weren't being seen as affirmative action.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 21:56

Oh, right, absolutely.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 21:57

And that is really, really important. One of the things that that is is not right, and you alluded it to before, is students who have academically achieved, who are black, who are Hispanic, who are different ethnic backgrounds, feeling as though they never earned it. Right. Or feeling as though they were in some way cheated their way to the top. Let me tell you this, you cannot cheat a chemistry degree. Okay. Or a doctorate or an MBA. And so some of these things are just ridiculous. And you know, never go in the comments of some of these YouTubes and videos that you see because people say the most egregious things about this. And I'm wondering when you're thinking about these students going to corporations and these having these talent pipelines, how do you how do you make sure that they're not walking into the door to a Google where people are thinking, oh, you were just given this job? But actually, these students are great.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 22:59

And what we do with our corporate partners, and we're very clear, uh that we're not a charity and that you're not doing us a favor. Uh we have talent on our campuses, and it's and more so, the reason why corporate America is interested in HBCUs is because there's a talent shortage in this country. So when you have a talented scientist or a talented, you know, mathematician or a talented musician, you know, people are going to respect that regardless of your color. And if you know where you can go and get the talent, you're gonna go and do that. And what we're seeing from our corporate partners, they recognize that HBCUs produce talented individuals. You only have to look at the list, the laundry list of uh successful HBCUs that have literally changed the world because they went to, they were a graduate. You know, you're talking about, you know, the largest percentage of doctors are HBCU graduates. No, um uh engineers are HBCU graduates, CPAs are HBCU graduates. So you look at those, that data, and that's what people are gonna be looking at, that they look at, and they know and they they align that data with the with the impact, they're gonna invest, make those strategic investments. So what we're seeing from an HBCU perspective is that those corporations are gonna continue to make those investments because they know the need is for workforce, the need is for workforce talent to come and help their corporations from that standpoint.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 24:22

And one of the things that that you have implemented, now one of the things I I have to stress to the audience is that the Thurgood Marshall College Fund is the most professional, most dynamic institution, organization that you will ever come across, right? And when I say that, when you go to their events, you go to their conference, everything

HBCCs And Place-Based Workforce Training

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 24:43

is so well planned, thought, thought through. Like there, it is a think tank, right? And so I just want to make sure that the audience understands that. And recently you guys started including historically black community colleges into your pathways. I want you to talk about what we call now HBCCs. Right, right? Right, right, right. How that is working and w what were your what's your thinking behind that?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 25:09

Nikisha, thank you for for saying that. And HBCCs have been around just as long as HBCUs, but their focus has been different, their mission has been different, primarily in the community. And there they are a total of 12 HBCCs as part of the Thurgood Marshall College Fund network. Uh currently, when I leave here today, I'm actually flying to San Antonio on Monday, where we are uh San Antonio Phillips College. You can look up uh St. Phillips College. It's the largest HBCC in America. They got over 20,000 students there in San Antonio, Texas. Uh it's an HBCU, but it's Hispanic serving. Uh, but it started out as an HBCC. Uh and we're having what we uh we're having uh our inaugural place-based training event where companies and partners are coming in. We're spending three days on their campus and bringing students in and helping them to work work through workshops, soft skill development, and interview techniques, and looking at their resume, making sure they have what they need for the local companies that are there because they're looking for workforce talent in the community. And what we're seeing are the HBCCs, they stay at their community-based. Uh, there's six HBCCs in the state of Alabama. We we we have we uh we do the place-based training there too. We just got back from uh uh Huntsville, Alabama, which is a thriving uh city in Alabama, and then we also were in Birmingham. Uh and right outside of Birmingham is uh Tuscaloosa, Alabama, where is Shelton State, where we did a place-based training there with those students where we're going to the students. When you go to an HBCC, the radius where those students attend college is within a 50 miles radius because they're they go straight to work. And but they they are also another workforce engine opportunity for corporations where they're trying to get talent from that perspective. And I really appreciate what you said about our award-winning uh Gala. I'm glad you and your husband were able to attend this past year. Uh, we're gonna celebrate our 40th anniversary here in why in New York City uh 2027. So I'll make sure you get an invitation to be. And you guys have to come.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 27:20

This is awesome. I love this. Now, how many students transfer to four-year institutions from the HBCCs?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 27:28

Do you see or do they see they so the most of the HBCCs they go straight to work? They go straight to work, yeah. Yeah, so they're designed primarily. We do have a um um a percentage based in the community uh of of students that are on that college track. You know, they got the general

Scholarships, Website, And How To Apply

Dr. Harry L. Williams 27:45

education track, but most of them are in uh certificate programs, they're doing activities around where they can get a certificate so they can give, go straight in to go straight to work. Right. Okay.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 27:57

So we're rounding up. I I want to know what are two to three practical ways students listening can take care of TMC, take advantage of the TMCF funds and the resources that you have.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 28:08

Well, first of all, if you're listening, and I would I thank you for this incredible opportunity to be on your podcast. That's exciting. Uh, but uh I would encourage your audience to go to our website. Very simple, tmcf.org. Tmcf.org. We have all of our programs up listed there. We have all our scholarships listed. We had last year uh for HBCU students, uh, we gave out over $26 million of scholarships. Wow, so I was doing, I was at your event and we were at the bank, and and one student saw the program and came up to me and said, Hey, I'm a TMCF scholar. I live three blocks here in Harlem, and I just want to say hello. She was here with her mother, and she's uh uh she's a student at Morgan State University. Yes. And she just came out of the blue. I love it. So we got them all over. You know, uh New York is a big draw for us, but we we encourage your audience to go. Uh, in order to get any of our scholarships, you have to be an HBCU student. Okay. You have to be at one of our member institutions. Now we do work with UNCF, that's the United Negro College Fund. Those are private HBCUs. We will work, we do have uh relationships with them where sometimes corporations want to support both, which is fine. Yes. And then we we collaborate. Michael Lomax is the CEO of that great organization. So we work together. He's just in charge of the private, and I'm in charge of the of the public HBCU.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 29:33

I love that collaboration between UNCF and um TMCF is so great. And you do create and produce

Quick Hits And Final Thanks

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 29:41

very excellent students. A couple of the STEM educational institute scholars have gone, are currently at HBCUs now, so we're really excited that they have that opportunity. And so with that, we have some quick hits that we're gonna give you. So now people always try and say both or get around the answer. You gotta pick one, okay? All right, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. Okay. I like that. Yeah, I'm ready. Okay. Homecoming or classic rivalry game.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:11

Classic rivalry game.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:12

Okay. Ball po ballpoint pen or felt tip. Ballpoint. Okay, coffee or tea?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:19

Tea.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:19

Okay. Pizza or tacos.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:21

Pizza. Okay. We had that. Yeah, we did.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:24

We did uh beach weekend or city weekend.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:30

That's tough. That's tough. That's tough. That's tough. That's the um beach.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:37

Okay. Early morning or late night? Early morning. Okay. Books or documentaries? Uh books. Okay. Uh mentor session or career fair. That's a good one.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:49

Um, mmm. Mentor session.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:51

Okay. Personal. Um, suit and tie or business casual.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:55

Business casual.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 30:56

Okay.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 30:57

I called you an ashes. Yeah, you did.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 31:00

Uh checkers or chess?

Dr. Harry L. Williams 31:01

Uh chess.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 31:02

Okay, I love that. Well, we are so grateful that you took the time to come and spend with us here in New York City. Everyone, check out TMCF, Dr. Let me make one correction.

Dr. Harry L. Williams 31:14

In the intro, you you said I was a founder. I'm not the founder of the third of the market. I'm sorry, sir. It's Dr. Ian Joyce Payne. I want Dr. Payne to know we know who's the founder of this organization. Yes. She did it over 40 years ago. But I just wanted to make that quick correction.

Dr. Nikisha D. Alcindor 31:29

Okay, fantastic. Yes, we love Dr. Joyce Payne. And we're so excited that you were able to join us today. Like and click, you can find um Dr. Williams on LinkedIn. You can also find TMCF. Please follow them, support, support the show. You can go down and like and, subscribe, and figure out how you can become a month monthly partner of ours and contribute to the show. So thank you so much, and we look forward to seeing you again here at Coding Conversations.